As of 1:45 today the House of Representatives failed the American people… By a vote of 228 to 205 (official talley for those watching live), the House resolution to shore up Main Street failed…
Once again, reality took a back seat to moral ambiguity.
Almost serendipitous in its timing, the moment the vote was solidified, the stock market dropped below where it was when Bush was sworn in…
If you are one of those people who determine their self respect by how much they are financially worth, you have some personal accounting to do…..
The American Dream of what could have been… is over.
As someone who watched the events proceed, to my chagrin, I believe history will eventually look at the numbers, and say that when Democrats had the option to save America, they chose to run the other way instead…. It could be because of pressure coming from sources like this……….
But right now, billions are pouring into the US Market to stem the flow… Will it be enough?
kavips 
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September 29, 2008 at 11:37 pm
jason330
I’m sure it had nothing to do with the Republicans pushing for something they could use to run against Democrats.
September 29, 2008 at 11:40 pm
jason330
The BBC says, “Members of President George W Bush’s Republican party were strongly opposed to it. About two-thirds of them refused to back it.”
So if this is the end times, why didn’t the Rpeublicans get on board?
September 29, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Ricky
Sorry, how was this supposed to help Main Street?
We’re headed downhill anyway. Let the greedy bastards sink like we’re sinking.
September 29, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Kavips is taking dumbass pills or something
[…] Some people are so used to blaming everything on Democrats that they just can’t not blame Demcorats. […]
September 29, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Delaware Dem
Ok, so 65% of the Democrats in the House vote for the Bill, and 65% of the Republicans in the House vote against the bill. Yet, it is the Democrat’s fault that the bill failed.
Kavips just jumped the shark.
September 29, 2008 at 11:58 pm
liberalgeek
This just reinforces my belief that Cassandra’s posts are read by the upper echelons of power in the US. Way to go Cassandra! You sunk the economy 😉
September 30, 2008 at 12:10 am
kavips
You guys are still looking at trees.
Here is how it think it will play years from now when we look back, I will adjust the actual figures later. but for now this synopsis is based on memory…
If one looks at the House tally of regular votes, one sees that the Democratic yea’s and the Republican nay’s are almost even… But there are 60 Republican “yeas” and there are 90 some Democratic “nays”…
The Democrats had an ample number of votes to spare… I believe only twelve Democrats would have had to switch their vote, plus of minus one because of the one not voting…
It’s in the hands of God and history now….
Pension plans, gone? Checking account funds, gone? IRA’s gone? Your jobs, gone? All charity, gone? The most basic of government services, gone?
Those persons voting “nay” have placed the bullet in the chamber, spun it, put the gun to their head, and pulled the trigger….
They could have chosen otherwise.
September 30, 2008 at 12:12 am
jason330
…because George Bush said so.
September 30, 2008 at 12:27 am
kavips
Lol, Geek, I disagree.
I found her other post to be well written, articulate, and illuminating the truth as it was and not as it was being represented by revisionists… She and I are in more of an agreement, than not.
And the problem is not just her… she is an asset, not a liability…
I guess I could have been more clear but the true problem is with those who I liken to those talk radio (or television) call ins, who are today pontificating based on platitudes… and clueless about the economic realities, for example, such as Ricki above..
They’re greedy, let them sink.
They err’ed, let them fail.
They did the crime, they should serve the time.
Why should Main Street bail out Wall Street?
It’s the Republicans fault, they should be blamed and dissolved after their cataclysmic loss on November 4th.
America should not bail out business.
Tax money does not belong in the market.
It’s pure socialism. Buying up companies.
Its pure communism. Buy up stock in vodka. lol
I argue it should be about this:
You lost your job… was it worth it….
You lost all your money… was it worth it…
Your house was foreclosed and you had excellent credit… was it worth it..
Sorry retiree’s…. your accounts are closed… was it worth it..
I need a loan for a water heater, today.. No….was it worth it…
I need a loan to float payroll for a week… No…. was it worth it…
So you can have your platitudes… and I’ll take your money…. Fine.
It’s now in the hands of God and history…. and it don’t look good…..
September 30, 2008 at 12:40 am
kavips
I think Jason330’s point shows your Achilles’ heel..
…because George Bush said so.
By definition that forces you to be against it… with out stopping to think “hmmm… how does this affect me and my family…… Hmmm……”
What I saw was something that Bush supported, eventually the Democratic leadership supported, even the breakaway Republican leadership supported, “play both ends against the middle” John McCain supported, and even “do what’s best for America,” Obama supported…. fall by pressure from people who don’t really understand the consequences, being whipped up to force pressure on their Congressional delegations less than forty days before an election.,… calling into their representatives, ..
September 30, 2008 at 12:50 am
liberalgeek
As I said earlier, it is like the boy who cried wolf. Unfortunately, I just reread that story. It didn’t end well…
September 30, 2008 at 1:46 am
AlanCoffey
K hit a nerve over there eh?
Have them all read the piece I referred you to. I did not bother posting it over there for the obvious reasons.
It is so easy to get confused about assigning blame for the mess as opposed to fixing it. Our political class cannot see the harm they do by trying to get over on each other. The fiddlers at DelLib play on! Never mind that glow over the capital, it’s mood lighting.
Both Dems and Repubs are an embarrassment.
September 30, 2008 at 6:19 am
david
I hope this defeat is just a stepping stone to making the bill better by addressing the mark to market rule by repealing it permanently and allowing banks to use income or market price. I also hope we revise the bankruptcy law to allow the courts to adjust the price.
If we do nothing, I think one day the names of those who opposed the rescue will become curse words. What I am seeing is 2 to 3 months before the panic of 1893. By next year, we could see economic peril not seen since Carter, then if we don’t change, it could be a repeat of Cleveland.
Remember, Grover said don’t worry and vetoed relief bills. The Government had to be bailed out by Morgan and company. Now it is Morgan, Citibank, Bank of America, and the Chinese.
I think you are premature, the end doesn’t come yet. We will survive poorer, chastened, and less free unless we come up with something soon.
We already lost far more than the so-called bailout would have cost. You should do a post on the CBO number of what it would really cost. We are throwing away trillions in wealth for a savings of billions. It is insane.
September 30, 2008 at 8:47 am
liberalgeek
Without an improved bill (yes this is better than the God-SecTreas, but not quite good enough) we will just be kicking the can down the road. If we get another week of the markets flipping out, they may just look around and see that the sky isn’t falling after all. If not everyone involved will be more ready to wheel and deal. It’s called politics.
If the banks expected some magic $700B wand to save them with no strings attached, then they have been lulled into a false sense of security these past 7 years.
While I am apprehensive (and somewhat split-minded on this whole issue) I am glad that Congress (R & D) have stood their ground against the President, finally. W better come to the table asking for help instead of informing Congress of the bill he wants them to sign off on.
September 30, 2008 at 1:17 pm
kavips
I just read up on mark to market and now wonder if much of this boom we were told defended the policies of this administration….. were instead simply accounting methods used to show a higher level of profit than could be shown before…. Old accounting laws, had they continued to be used, may have shown flat or some negative growth… Of course appearing profitable means money would come pouring in, so the true growth that occurred, would then be an amalgamation of the two, that is hard to decipher…
As I said, I don’t know yet, but if someone wants to run this ball,… and I just realized that perhaps it could be a possibility, so there it is if anyone feels like catching it….
September 30, 2008 at 1:49 pm
kavips
I think that most of those glad this bill was defeated do not know very much of what was in it…
Last night there was some talk of refloating it on Thursday…. If so, and if there are markets left still worth salvaging… (There is a good chance the 30th is worse than the 29th.) some of the objections to the original bill may be removed, bettering the bill and garnishing a few more votes…
For example removal of all golden parachutes as Cassandra points out, may help alleviate some angst among several of those Democrats who voted “nay”.
I’m surprised that none of you have yet realized that if the market rebounds strongly over the next five years, (and we would have been 700 points closer to that mark if this bill had been past yesterday), that this vehicle could actually wind up turning a profit and assist in helping our nation tackle its deficit reduction problem….
‘Tis a consumation devout’ly to be wished….
That little addition to HB 3799 was inspired genius.
And David brings up a valid historical context as well.. With every Depression that has occurred in the past, economists have always said with hindsight, that the bailouts if attempted at all, were just not big enough… Those half hearted attempts fell short, no investor took them seriously, and the economy crashed, burned, and average citizens suffered for a long time…
Yesterday, after the bill was defeated 1.2 trillion disappeared. That means we start today with $1.2 trillion less capital to help jump start our economy. I guess it is not that much… Just $4000 dollars for every man, women and child scattered across this nation…
“Screw those rich people…. hey, where’s my paycheck?”
Small minds can only grasp small solutions…. lol my friends… 🙂
September 30, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Pandora
Do “constituents” really understand what they are for or against when it comes to this bill? I know I don’t. I find myself swayed by both arguments which means something (facts?) is missing from the debate.
The questions remain on the table… unanswered. What happens if we don’t pass the rescue package? What happens if we do?
September 30, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Shirley
Pandora, I’m in the same boat as you. My instinct tells me that “something stinks” in the bill as it now stands, and would be a boondoggle on our backs for years to come. On the other hand, people much smarter than me state otherwise. There are arguments on both sides from very knowledgeable people.
What’s a citizen to think? I think we’re screwed either way.
It will be interesting to see what revisions they will come up with and if the ACORN dispensation will mysteriously re-appear as an appeasement to the D’s.
To be a fly on the wall……
September 30, 2008 at 7:13 pm
liberalgeek
Yesterday, after the bill was defeated 1.2 trillion disappeared.
Was it really ever there? If the accounting methods used to value companies was compromised, they that was 1.2 trillion lies.
I tend to think that the market reacted to a surprise yesterday. Wall St. is nothing if it is not emotional. we were down 500 one day the week before, and I suspect that before the week is out, we will be right back up. Perhaps not all of the 700, but certainly to a more correct level. If you lost 200K in your 401k yesterday, I suspect most of it will be back soon. You didn’t sell it, did you?
September 30, 2008 at 9:06 pm
liberalgeek
Looks like as of noon today almost half a trillion has magically reappeared. Sigh. Any exuberance that I might feel is tempered, as should any fear felt yesterday.
September 30, 2008 at 10:40 pm
AlanCoffey
Washington is broken boys and girls. They negotiated a bill they could not pass! Come on! These are not serious people. They cannot even make bad sausage!
I suggest you vote very single one of them out on their ears!
October 1, 2008 at 12:04 am
kavips
LG, correct… We were reminded of just how volatile markets can be by yesterday’s events.. It would be wise to remember somewhere in the back of our heads, that in October of 1929, there occurred a day called Black Thursday when the stock market after sputters and spurts, finally crashed….
And yet on Friday, it showed some life and pulled ahead a little… Then on Monday, it collapsed much further… We would forever remember that day as Black Monday….except for one thing.
It was the next day that it dropped to the floor…. Black Tuesday lives on in infamy…
Bottom line is that we need to keep our eye on that which “can happen” and try to prevent a major meltdown before something called panic sets in…
Based on global chatter, all that seems to be stemming outright panic this morning, is “talk” that on Thursday, after the religious holiday, a new bailout bill will be floated and most certainly passed by the U.S. House of Representatives.
If that too falls short, and if there is nothing else left out there to pin ones fleeting hopes upon…. we should prepare ourselves for the same as Black Thursday, then Black Monday, and finally Black Tuesday…..
(LG, as avid reader may have already guessed, I gained 3% yesterday from the wise decision made well over a year ago.. which I have repeatedly been encouraging readers to do as well)
October 1, 2008 at 12:23 am
kavips
To Shirley and Pandora,
The negotiations produced a very good bill over Paulson’s original.. It happened so quickly that most Americans were still reacting 24 hours behind the curve as they called their Representatives to tell them to vote no..
Representatives who voted yes, showed great courage by going against the majority of their constituents. (Ours did as well).
Events have proven those who voted “yes” to be right… Even on this blog, one can trace the softening of opposition towards the bailout, as economic reality slowly made dents into the fog of high minded principals.
But because votes were insufficient, new opportunity lies in the time frame provided, as well as in the lapse of the market’s collapse: the opportunity to tweak the Bailout bill and remove a couple of items still damaging to forming a strong consensus…
Blaming Pelosi is a cheap copout… The blame belongs instead to the hundreds of thousands of citizens who flooded Congress with calls of their concern…
Which, of course is as it should be…
Interestingly enough, it was only BBC who carried it, but a gentlemen in Oregan, said something like….” I’m stunned…. They actually listened …to us….”
As it should be, I supposed.. Now if we can only get updated information out to the American public so they can react in a timely fashion…
October 1, 2008 at 3:29 am
AlanCoffey
Pass a bill that is as lean as possible.
THEN vote every last mother lover of em out on their ears. They are ALL culpable.
October 2, 2008 at 1:55 am
AlanCoffey
And today what do we see from the Senate? Pork.
Disgusting