Is this. They take money away from other schools…
The idea of charter schools is Republican at best. You take a school, make it excel, and parents will want to send their kids there. You then close other schools that fail…
The problem that was never addressed, was what then do we do with all those students who for whatever reason, can’t get into a charter school.
The answer provided by the Charter School Program, is that we consolidate them into even more problematic, even more underfunded, and even more unstructured environments where if they couldn’t learn before, they certainly can’t learn now….
There is a maxim in both business and the military. You are only as good as your weakest point. The same could be said for dykes around New Orleans. Having a real strong dyke on the wealthiest side of the city, does little when the water comes in from behind, because you forgot to account for a barrier on the poor side of the city.
That’s the problem with Charter Schools…..
Some Charter schools do well. But a lot do no better than public. Charter Schools get to pick their students. If Charter schools had to accept special needs students as do public schools, they would be forced to close…
What Charter Schools do provide, is a haven for parents to send kids so they will not be infested with ghetto values. Pencader School of Business was founded on these principles by Principal Dave Jones. There was no ghetto value along the shore of the Delaware River, overlooking New Jersey.
Some Charter Schools do well. Some Public Schools do well. What both have in common, is a principal who has autonomy to run his school… No DoE’s. No mandates by Dover. None of the normal bullshit that politics has laid at the feet of those just trying to help today’s youth make it in tomorrow’s world.
Another common factor, is that successful schools have community involvement. The community looks up to the schools with respect, and the schools look out to the community with respect. When the community and schools are in line and working off the same page, they are successful; whether private, charter, or public, makes little difference.
It is apparent after reviewing the literature covering both sides of the Charter issue, that the successes on both extremes, have these common values. Good leadership and community support.
It appears current society’s focus needs to re-establish those two cores. Good leadership and community support.
The Department of Education needs to bug out of student’s learning.
The answer to education is simple.
You need a great reward for graduating students to make learning worthwhile. My generation was motivated by the fact that we would one day be paid based on how well we achieved academically. That was a lie. Today’s children know it by 2nd grade.
Second, you need a great reward for educators and principals to achieve the impossible. People rise to the occasion presented. A simple $20,000 bonus if every child in your class, simply met objectives, with $1000 minus off for each of those that did not, would certainly fix education in one year.
Third, you need to give principals autonomy. Their bonus should be $200,000. Then, you rank each principal on the percentage of teachers he has, who received the full $20,000 bonuses…… IF his salary is dependent on how many of his teachers get their full bonuses, his primary goal, will be to work with every teacher for that endeavor. Not as is currently proscribed, working against them…
If every student, every teacher, every principal is working diligently for the same goal, you will not need a Department of Education. You will not need Governmental Interference.
You will need structure (prisons) for lost causes. You will need school transportation funding. You will need upkeep on buildings. You will need new technology. You will need investment in music, art, and drama. You will need investment in sports.
School defines who we are. Cutting down our options, diminishes our future potential.
Mankind can do extraordinary things. We have, when the needs have arisen, done so… Just this tiny bit of money, placed in the right investment category, can change the entire scenario of a failed school district, into a thriving one.
kavips 
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December 7, 2011 at 12:49 pm
anonymous
Kavips says, charter schools take money away from other schools…
Does he also want teachers to take money away from the schools as well? $20,000 a classroom, $200,000 for principals – isn’t what he calls a “tiny bit of money.” It’s further insult to injury.
Haven’t charter schools taken good (and well taught) students away from the ‘other’ schools?
Isn’t it that the chosen good students raise the average learning curve of the charter school?
Isn’t it that the public schools end up with a higher percentage of students who can’t, won’t or haven’t be taught to learn and most likely, a higher percentage of teachers who brought them to that point.
What to do with students who don’t go to Charter Schools? Use available resources to help the students advance.
Sometimes a child is born with ability, or not. He could be sent to the worst school around and excel or best school – and fail. Bush.
Sometimes it’s the ability and effort put into the child’s success that counts.
The ‘better’ students that arrived at the charter school were pre selected, because they already showed potential of being ‘better’ students. The quality of education can’t be judged on how two groups of students (public, charter) do on the average, instead of how each student improves, particularly when comparing the ‘selected’ group vs the ‘remaining’ group, (apples/oranges.) A teacher with a group of students with various problems affecting learning, might be doing a greater job, although the learning curve may not reflect it.
You say, “If Charter schools had to accept special needs students as do public schools, they would be forced to close…,” I’m not sure this has to do with the amount of money offered teachers. Although one does realize, some students require more help.
Isn’t it about the ability of ‘teachers’ to teach, as well as the ability of students to learn? Regarding ‘getto influences’ (one assumes you mean ghetto influences of students, not teachers.) I’ll spare you the examples of actual terrible teachers. The well behaved/capable students while in these classes, were essentially warehoused, only learning how miserable school/life could be. Let’s not pretend ‘teachers’ are perfect. Dept heads. mandates, controls are needed.
Do not respect a failed teacher simply because he is holding a ‘teacher’s job.’ Question why he has failed. Do not gift an otherwise ‘failure prone teacher’ just because she decides to meet her job description – because of an upcoming gift offer. This would only further encourage teachers not to be expected to fill their required job descriptions. It would also take away money that should be used to benefit the kids directly, maybe inquiries into home life, counseling, teachers aids, etc.)
A good education isn’t about bonuses for teachers. It’s about getting the needed help for the students.
A bridge designer should be paid extra, if the design doesn’t fail?; a doctor paid extra if the patient doesn’t die; a waiter paid extra, if he doesn’t spit on food? A teacher should meet his job description or…one hears there are people looking for work.) ‘Fining’ a teacher because a pupil can’t or refuses to learn – pointless. But the underlying problem has to be looked into. $200,000 bonuses for ‘good’ principals? Wow, there goes a lot of help for the kids, out the window. The principal’s job is … ‘to work with every teacher to meet their primary goals.’ Are we to believe that a principal deserves a $200,000 bonus on top of his salary because he did his job?
Does Kavips imagine that students will work diligently for a goal,…dependent upon the amount of (pay/bonuses) his teachers/principal receives? Take parents for example: some with little or no resources, others with more than can be imagined. Money is not the deciding factor on how well the child turns out, likewise, neither is the amount of money (within reason) paid a school employee. At this moment, teachers in the same pay range, are doing horrible/as well as fantastic jobs. It may be that some teachers doing fantastic jobs are just brighter, better motivated individuals, much as some parents are, some students are. It may be, outstanding teachers are being selected to teach at curtain locations, because they are outstanding teachers – and that their pay isn’t their motivation behind being a successful teacher although pay may be a motivation as to where and whom they teach. But standing before children anywhere, a teacher should be doing his best. The best teachers want to do the best they can – for the kids. I’m not saying money, sufficient/or insufficient funds don’t play its’ roll. Some people are not- so-good parents; some people are not-so- good teachers. You can’t choose your parents. but charter schools can chose their teachers and their students. Do they chose equally from the spectrum? Therein lies a problem.
Motivate ‘teachers’ to teach because an ‘extra $20,000 cash’ would be in it for them? If that’s the kind of teachers they are, they don’t deserve their jobs.
Does Kavips suggest the desire to educate and the desire to become educated should revolve around the monetary system that keeps someone who is doing a half-assy job, but reward them for an effort? Who has ever been told, ‘you’re doing a lousy job; I’ll give you $20,000 more if you do your job.’ In the real world: you’re doing a lousy job is followed by – I’ve got some bad news for ya…
Charter schools it seems, may be making it harder for the children they discriminately ignore. That’s no reason to pad the teachers bottom line with money that’s needed for special help for kids who it seems have been dealt an un even hand, one way and the other. Teachers should be taught to respect the vital responsibility of being an ‘educator;’ who must do their best to teach students the real value of learning so that teacher and student reach their greatest potential. “Only if you give me my bonu$.” sounds republican.
December 7, 2011 at 1:16 pm
kavips
Gosh, I hear a lot of disrespect of teachers in what you’re saying. It’s as if you think teachers are the problem…
The problem is that teachers aren’t allowed to teach. They have to do other stuff.. The solution is that teachers know best how to teach their classroom. Of all the people in all the world, they know the best, those children of which they are in their charge….
They should be rewarded for succeeding.
It appears you have taken the bait charter schools send out.. The charter school philosophy can best be described as the Dugger’s philosophy… Hey, we can put one of our kids into college…. ”
Uhhh, did anyone think about how that affects the other 19?
Point is, doing away with public funding for charter schools and investing in the real experts, students and teachers, would do a lot for our national educational level.
The stupidest, and stupidest, and stupidest idea ever floated, is… Oh.. let’s not reward them; it’s their job….
That didn’t work for the plantation slave and is the exact mentality proffered by those who prospered from slave’s free labor.
No, in America, we do reward results… that’s why our system is better than the Communist system which assumed rewards for “doing their stinkin’ job” were superfluous…
The magic bullet is this: Bonus teachers enough to make it worth their while to achieve outstanding results.
December 7, 2011 at 5:45 pm
anonymous
Kavips says,
Teacher have to do other stuff? They know how to teach, but aren’t allowed to teach?
Those are problems teachers need to straighten out.
Kavips: “They should be rewarded for succeeding.” Except that they are failing many.
I’m far removed from knowing how teachers function in their classrooms today, don’t know of the Dugger’s philosophy (OK, I’ll look it up later.) I have no general disrespect of the teaching profession; What could be better than teaching kids? Bonuses perhaps?
I didn’t describe teachers I’ll always remember. Sure teachers are great, except if they spend the entire classroom semester smoking in the teacher’s lounge, threaten physical violence for the ‘fun’ of it or are lecturing for the year while mentally breaking down. Ahh…wasted….boring….warehousing memories of public school.
I’d imagine many teachers could be overwhelmed, except in the summer. Teach in the summer is an idea.They’re paid during the summer, aren’t they? It’s an especially good deal for stay at home kids with poor home life stimulation, for kids fairing poorly during the school year to catch up, or for kids who love school, want to get ahead during the summer, take fun classes, etc. All those multi million dollar air conditioned school buildings, the lonely stay at home kids, plus 3 months vacation time for all those teachers who need to produce results, all going to waste at the same time….
I imagine the nonsense, bureaucracy, plus dealing with every one’s perfect darlings is maddening. Teachers should be well rewarded – in their paycheck. The idea of bonuses being let fly reminds one of bureaucratic arrangements, french fry machines, Cape Henlopen’s $100,000 job for the wifey at the public school ‘daycare for toddlers,’ etc.
Dropping public funding for what isn’t public, sounds right. Investing in real experts to teach, raising the educational level – why isn’t it happening? Why would a bonus be needed in order to achieve results?
Slave labor isn’t involved. I do hear however, teachers are underpaid, but doesn’t being paid for the summer off, while they could work a summer job, make up for it? Why pay a yearly rate for 9 months work? Those school kids aren’t plowing the fields in the summer anymore.
When I think of kids today, I think – where are they? See any around playing, running, skating, playing pick up ball, even at their own yards? Even the summer help isn’t made up of the usual school kids. Instead kids are dropped off at the curb (walking in public is to dangerous) to go to their empty houses (mom’s too busy) to go to their rooms….
Rise the qualifications and pay rates to attract new and better teachers, especially in (ask the experts) math, science, technology, maybe manufacturing, clean energy, small business, etc. Use available summer time to teach.
Too think of what kids are facing, is too sad, so it could be, I’d rather see any spare educational money going ‘directly’ to the kids classrooms, so that they do succeed at school. Think of the entire budget for education. Think of how little one child receives, because teachers are unwilling? to make the grade. A bonus would make them willing?
What’s wrong with a teacher being required to meet one’s job description? Everyone with a job has to. $20,000 bonus times (x) the hundreds of teachers who decide they ‘can teach’ after all, could take hundreds of thousands of dollars and a lot of help away from the many ‘classrooms’ year round. The teachers would have that money in their wallets, out of the system.
$200,000 bonus directly into the principals’ wallets – just 10 principals and you’re into twenty million dollars ($20,000,000) of education money, lining the fat cats’ wallets, walking away from the system. Why? Because they wouldn’t work without bonuses? How republican.
The question is, what about the teachers/principals who haven’t/can’t/won’t achieve – outstanding results? Keep them on the payroll anyway? Why let the new teacher just out of college, without a job, waste away. Keeping someone who won’t produce on the payroll, the American way?
Kavips says, “No, in America, we do reward results… that’s why our system is better..” Is it? It’s failing… Or was it better?, No… it wasn’t. Warehousing…boring…repetitive……useless…. dangerous…. borderline….
Not that many America workers get bonuses, (9% don’t have jobs,) unless you are talking about, you know, the 1-2% highest highest income earners, bankers, Wall streeters -getting their bonuses. They get bonuses no matter what. Very republican.
Take from the kids that ‘need’ it most, give to those that ‘have’ so they can take money out of the system. Hmmmm. A teacher’s salary generally isn’t high I’m told, (but hardly slave like.) And what’s wrong with expecting a person to fulfill their ‘job description’ when they’re lucky to have a job, one that isn’t meeting standards at that? as kids aren’t receiving the lessons they need. (See first paragraph.) Lots of people are breaking their backs, above and beyond, just so they don’t get fired, not daring to ask for -$20,000 to $200,000 per person bonuses, which could explode into the ten of millions.
Kavips says, “The magic bullet is this: Bonus teachers enough to make it worth their while to achieve outstanding results.”
I guess the kids aren’t – ‘enough to make it worth their while.’
Funnel the educational money out of the system, into the hands of those who fail the children.
It’s what a 1% er would do. Re Re Re Re publican.
December 8, 2011 at 4:33 am
kavips
There are a couple of basic human principals you do not seem to get….as evidence by some of your heartfelt statements. Such as:
“I guess the kids aren’t – ‘enough to make it worth their while.”
No, they aren’t..
“Funnel the educational money out of the system, into the hands of those who fail the children”…
Who says the money is funneled out of the system? who says teachers fail the children?… Not the parents, not the students.. What fails, is a bureaucracy that simply won’t allow them to teach.
Not that many America workers get bonuses,
Yes they do.
Teaching in the summer is out. You can force kids to stay in school, but if they don’t want to learn, they won’t. Who wants to go to school in the summer?
That is gotta be the dumbest idea ever floated. Who on earth, becomes an adult, without going through school? Who on earth is so forgetful, they can’t remember the feeling of getting out of school for the summer? Who on earth is so forgetful they can’t remember being excited to go back to school in the fall, because they missed their friends?
No, summer break is a non negotiable.
Basically it appears the concept of a bonus if foreign to you..
Here is a primer.
You are hired. you are paid. You do as little as possible to keep your job.
We fire you. We hire another. He is paid. We soon find he does as little as possible to keep his job..
We fire him… We hire another. She is paid. We soon find she does as little as possible to do her job.
We fire her… We hire another.. He is paid… We soon find he does as little as possible to accomplish his job…
Some idiots say, well, keep firing and hiring and you will find the right person … Those idiots don’t have a clue.. We went through twenty people who were the right person.. All did as little as possible…
Why?
Why not. There is no reason to break ones back for a paycheck. What’s the point, if given the choice of having a broken back and a fixed back, with no difference in pay?… Better to keep the pay check, and do a little as possible…
Now, into this arrangement, inject a bonus.
We hire someone. We pay him. And we say, we also have a bonus in our compensation plan. If all your students are proficient at the next grade level by the school terms end, you will receive an additional stipend. $20,000 dollars. The defining word is “IF” … IF he doesn’t meet the criteria, that $20,000 does not come to him. But if he does, then all those children excel at the next level.
Bonuses are contingent upon reaching solid goals. The entire reason for bonuses, is because the bonus cost less than repetitive failure.
Bonuses are used in construction. Finish this bridge by April, and you get 20% more… The reason is that if the construction company stretched it out to August, it would cost the same, but… we wouldn’t have a bridge for an additional 5 months.
There 8322 Delawarean teachers. If, everyone earned 20,000 that would cost an additional $166 million per year…There are 247 schools. At $200,000 per principal, that would cost….another $49 million per year.
Is it worth $215 million to have every student making straight A’s? and landing in the top 1% of state testing?
Currently the budget for the Delaware Department of Education is $837 million. So for an additional 25% more, our state would have every student excelling in the top one percent of the country…
but that can’t be done. and so we would not hit the theoretical $215 million cost. It would probably begin at the 20% level and gradually climb. So the initial cost would be somewhere around $25 million.
So, that is how bonuses get results… Bonuses are far more effective than firing people. Bonuses are the most awesome things ever invented by man.
.
December 8, 2011 at 9:36 am
anonymous
DELAWARE TEACHERS NOT ALLOWED TO TEACH?
Having teachers that fall in line with a bureaucracy that “won’t allow teachers to teach,” is deliciously, disgustingly spineless -like a gravy train mc sandwich – served off the backs of kids.
MR. JOHN Q. PRINCIPAL
Mr. John Q. Principal, stuffing his fat wallet with $200,000 because he finally was convinced (by a $200,000 (wow) bonus offer) …..to have (allow?) the teachers teach, has $200,000. Two hundred thousand dollars each principal, that would be better kept in the classrooms, working for the kids.
What budget are your proposing these tens of millions in bogus bonuse$ actually come from anyway?
How is John Q. not funneling the money out of the ‘educational system,’ when each J.Q’s collectively could spend those hundreds of millions on real estate in the mountains, the new pool, stock options, foreign oil investments, the republican war chest, madam’s face lift? Why is John Q principleless, presently pampering, tolerating, allowing, facilitating the present “bureaucracy that simply won’t allow them (teachers) to teach?”
SCHOOLS’ OUT – OF TOUCH WITH REALITY
The kids aren’t needed on the farm to work the fields anymore.
What other job offers a three month long vacation, so the kids can go work the fields? None. First of all, why the three months? Why not, one month? Kids like a vacation, sure, but teachers REALLY like being paid for a three month (benefits included) long vacation, from “not being able to teach.” Of course there are kids who love going to school; of course there are kids that need to be at school in the summer – catching up; of course. There are activities, classes, new programs, recreational, fun, advancements, learning things, that the schools could provide that would greatly benefit the kids, many of whom would be spending too much time alone at home. Of course, the teachers don’t want to give up their paid, three month long vacation from the kids. But it’s the kids school system; the educational system, that kids do belong connected to, benefitting from what the schools can offer – during the summer months in their new multi million dollar air conditioned school buildings, with their friends, their teachers. Why send the teachers off on a three month long paid vacation, when they have so much that could be accomplished – like figuring out why it is, the American children won’t be able to complete in the world’s economy due to – lack of education.
Here’s an idea. Pay the teachers for their nine months. For three months, hire outside experts in their fields, outstanding professional teachers with that ‘earmarked’ hundreds of million bonus cash, keeping the money where it belongs, in the kids classrooms.
HERE’S KAVIP’S TAKE ON “THE PRIMER”
“Here is a primer.
You are hired. you are paid. You do as little as possible to keep your job..”
“Better to keep the pay check, and do a little as possible…”
Now, into this arrangement, inject a bonus…
LISTEN to yourself Kavips.
…Keep those would can’t/won’t – do their job.
…Kavips suggests the alternative would be, quote from Kavips:
“We fire you. We hire another. He is paid. We soon find he does as little as possible to keep his job.. We fire him… We hire another. She is paid. We soon find she does as little as possible to do her job. We fire her… We hire another.. He is paid… We soon find he does as little as possible to accomplish his job…”
“We went through twenty people who were the right person.. All did as little as possible…”
Wait Kavips, that needs to stop here. Is that how it goes in a ‘teacher’s world?’ That’s not how it goes in the ‘real world.’ We went through 20 people who “WERE THE RIGHT PERSON?” Are you sure about that? First of all, the school system keeps it’s failed teachers, it hires more teachers that fail? Are the ‘right’ people actually being hired? Doesn’t sound like it to me, since in general, the kids educational system is in failure mode.
I had an instructor, who would ramble about anything under the sun for an hour – while he was supposed to be teaching an engineering class. I’m thinking, I’m listening but this man isn’t making any sense. I made a point to come to class, sit in the front of the room – stare at this man, examine every word, trying to figure out – what in the hell IS he talking about, as he went on from subject to un related subject, only to realize, he hadn’t a clue. He was assigned the class, knew nothing of the course subject, would come in, open the book, and remained a babbling drunk the entire semester. I came to class anyway (no choice,) He passed everyone, based on nothing. Did he, the school, actually help those in the class or rob them? Question Kavips, would a bonus help?
“BONUSES ARE USED IN CONSTRUCTION,” Kavips says.
“Finish this bridge by April, and you get 20% more…”
No Kavips, it actually goes like this in the ‘real world.’
“Finish this bridge by April, or you will be fined $10,000 day per until the bridge is operational.” Or, ” ..clear your gear out of here – we’ll have someone who can, finish the job. You will pay for those costs.” What happens, as April approaches, corporate headquarters keeps a hawk eye on the progress of the work and the time table – to get the job done. Management of major construction situations make sure the union guys get the job gets done, as many would like to remain at the job. At crunch time, Management hires, outside if necessary, tracking everything, to see – that the job gets done. Kavips, you make me laugh, 20% more to do what they are contracted to do. Why in Kavips world, would a guys EVER finish a job on time; (similar to why on earth would a teacher ever teacher, a principal lead) when they can get a bonus for doing what they are contracted to do anyway. That’s similar to telling parents, no need to raise you children to be good citizens, we’ll give you $20,000 ea, if your thugs don’t kill.
Speaking of someone who can’t and someone who can, here’s an idea. Have the teacher who won’t/can’t, replaced by someone who actually can/will. Since kids have to complete in the world market, how about spending the cash earmarked ‘bonus’, on some world class teachers? Don’t have someone who can teach science and engineering? Don’t put that babbling drunk dude in front of the class. Hire someone who knows what the hell he’s saying. And don’t just leave it off of the curriculum as students around the world are taught to survive in today’s world, while teachers of children of city streets and country townhouses, trailers, the growing homeless, take that three month long paid vacation, so that the kids can duh- plow the fields….. Republicans don’t care much for educating the masses, just their own darlings. However,the promise of ten of millions cash, directed away from the classrooms would sound good to them. It’s a plan that feeds into the plantation mentality and cheap labor.
KAVIPS PLOWS ON,
“There 8322 Delawarean teachers. If, everyone earned 20,000 that would cost an additional $166 million per year…There are 247 schools. At $200,000 per principal, that would cost….another $49 million per year.
Is it worth $215 million to have every student making straight A’s? and landing in the top 1% of state testing?” End quote
Ops Kavips, you’re not counting the billions already spent to get the job done.
But a miracle ain’t going to happen, Kavips. The ones that are doing their jobs to being with, would run off with bonuses. The hopeless babblers, such as the aforementioned drunk, could babble on forever..but will he babble his way into the top 1% of state testing? It ain’t going to happen. Nothing lost there you may say. – except the kids rightful education watching the endless parade of babblers. It’s a 1%ers type of money diverting (from a poor kids) scheme alright, that the teachers might be very agreeable to (what’s to loose?), except that the poor kids will continue to suffer the consequences and of course, never, never ‘land in the top 1% of state testing. However, if they had the right teachers, curriculum, many would already be there. Plenty of ‘real life’ examples of that though, no bonus involved, just capable students, capable instructors.
KAVIPS CONCLUDED,
“Bonuses are the most awesome things ever invented by man.”End quote
But it does nothing to improve the kids’ dire educational situation, (and the future of the country.) The majority of the kids will get what they get now. For those who would hope to be on the receiving end of the bogus bonuses, money in the bank.
For politicians, it’s a republican plan with a teachers’ twist, suitable for a DINO, to attract both blocks of votes.
Poor kids.