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This state bill was to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill. It achieved a roadblock when the idea was broached that mentally ill people would not seek help if it meant the loss of their guns…
If someone is mentally ill and has guns, there are four possibilities… Four….
Mentally ill with guns and bullets // Mentally ill without guns and bullets.
Mentally healthy with guns and bullets // Mentally healthy without guns and bullets
Of those four possibilities stretching across the plateau of human existence, only one is dangerous to fellow human beings…
A mentally ill person who has guns and bullets….
Now that we have isolated the problem… Let us look at it more closely….. we again divide by the four possibilities…
Mentally ill will get help and use his arsenal // Mentally ill will get help and not use his arsenal
Mentally ill will not get help and use his arsenal // Mentally ill will not get help and not use his arsenal.
Of those four possibilities we now have two that are dangerous to innocent human beings.
Mentally ill who will get help and still use his arsenal, and Mentally ill who do not get help and will still use their arsenal….
Therefore across the panel of humanity, all races, all genders, all classes, every non-accidental shooting death is caused by the hand of a mentally ill person owning a firearm, whether under treatment or not…
Most of the more famous murderers in history have had treatment for their psychosis. Most of those being treated still had access to their firearms, and for what ever reason, choose to use them….
As of this point in history,… as far as I can find on today’s search engines,… there has never been a gun-caused mass murder by someone who had no access to guns…
Again, people in psychiatric care have blown other people away; people without guns, have never done so…..
Only one conclusion from this logical exercise can be gleaned….
If you voted to allow the continence of mentally-ill people owning guns, no matter what flimsy reason you used to assuage your guilt, you cast a vote for an upcoming future mass-murder.
If you voted to disallow the continence of mentally-ill people from owning guns, you took the only step in the right direction that would do anything to stop its re-occurrence…..
People in treatment still kill when they have guns. Without guns, one rids oneself of the problem….
The bottom line: to allow a crazy person to have a full blown arsenal, is madness. To think that allowing him to have a full blown arsenal will make him more likely to seek treatment, is not thinking straight….
There is only one solution; redo HB 88….
In passing I acknowledge that this is an emotional issue for those on both sides. When we use emotions to think, none of us think straight. If ever the time should arise where we as a society make that choice to think straight, then keeping guns out of the hands of mentally ill goes a long way to preventing mass murderers from happening: …. Logically speaking of course.
“On my southbound morning commute, I often meet a school bus in the northbound lane. It’s a wide feeder street with broad sidewalks and good visibility. I am an impatient commuter and the degree to which I hate sitting in traffic borders on the irrational. So when the flashers go on and I watch the children board the bus from the far left side of the road, my analytical impatient id grouses and knows that I could drive past that bus and that the probability of encountering a child on my side of the road would be vanishingly small. Yet the law tells me I must stop. So I do. And I remind myself that the law is in place out of an abundance of caution and recognition for the precious cargo that the bus is carrying. So I smile and wave at the bus driver when she lets me pass, and I get to work two minutes later than I would have otherwise. We should work towards gun laws that are similarly configured, out of an abundance of caution and recognition of the preciousness of schoolchildren.“
“We should work towards gun laws that are similarly configured, out of an abundance of caution and recongnition of the preciousness of schoolchildren…. “
Most importantly, I’ve changed my view on mental health. I used to think it was a weakness. I now see it as a disease. I know I always accepted it as a disease, like when I talked to others, but inside, I thought since I was tough enough to beat it, others could too…. Like lifting weights to build body mass, one could rigor himself out of mental illness. Boy was I wrong.
So much came out , and particularly in the “Gun Battle” that followed, I saw that regulating guns was not the real issue. The real issue is helping those who see nothing wrong with taking other’s lives and then their own…
I used to think the rising trends of mass murders, came solely because we lost control over who bought guns… To some extent, it still is. But there was another trend of which I was then ignorant and that was how cutbacks since the Recession was and still is, ..creating more mentally unstable people…
Our society’s basic overall problems come down to this one single thing: too-little money. The self-imposed lack-of-it behind supporting government functions, means those functions are now not there, because no private entity volunteered to step up and take it on… The money needed for these programs is out there, but continues to filter up to the top 1%.
Had we had a healthy, thriving support system to deal with our mentally ill, … other choices may have been made leading up to that shooting.. Had we had the same in Aurora…. that disaster may have been prevented… Had we had the same in DC, there is a good chance the Navy Yard Shootings would never have happened….
We make choices and those choices have consequences… We consciously chose to cut taxes on the wealthy and by doing so, hasten our government into bankruptcy … I know it was a conscious decision because I was right there eloquently arguing against it… and was over ruled. Not by a lot, but by enough… It was the way they saw of making ourselves better… and often when one narrows one’s universe a little smaller, to where those things happening on the outside nolonger matter, one can make a smaller universe indeed appear better… until of course the outside comes crashing in….
As so the problems of one burned-out divorced mother trying to deal with a mentally ill child, crashed in upon the national consciousness in a sickening way. So we’ve learned:
Lesson 1: Mental illness is a security risk.. Mental illness is a disease. We need to spend lots of money to cure and contain mental illness from crashing into our lives ever again… No sliver amount of billionaire’s income is worth the loss of those children at Sandy Hook, ever again.
Secondly. Unless a shooting takes place over drugs, almost all shootings are caused by those mentally ill. Husbands, wives, children, killers, non killers, or Floridians prejudiced against hoodies… We are learning in just one year, particularly with Gun Fail publications now illuminating all the deaths around the country, that all shootings probably have mental illness at their root…..
Which practically means, if we could completely eliminate mental illness from our society, we wouldn’t have to regulate guns at all, (except for the drug warriors of course… )
But until we do… we need to keep the guns our society has chosen to make so readily available, out of the hands of those who really don’t have the same values of right or wrong as do the rest of us, particularly when it is about our lives….
In that regard, we need to hold those of red states accountable and put the blame squarely upon them, for they are the blockage of both directions at this problem… Either they open the now dry channels of dollars to fast flow towards the treating of mental illness. or they opt to tighten the free flow of guns in order to make sure that only those who are not mentally ill, can legally own them…
There is truth in the saying that criminals being criminals can always get guns if they want, because criminals aren’t worried about obeying the law…. That is entirely true.
However, the converse is also true, that if you have guns laying all over the street and readily available, more are going to get used than if it is really difficult and expensive to acquire even one… A lot of legislation designed to tighten up the easy access to guns and gun paraphernalia, was lobbied down this year…
Often by people a little mentally ill themselves (Wayne LaPierre) who fear the government of the People, for the People, and by the People, more than they fear a bullet escaping out of a gun nozzle headed their way…. Those who have the other fear, ie, guns over government, need to clarify their argument, button down the rhetoric, and state that at stake, is just keeping guns out of the hands of those mentally ill….
Mental illness is a disease… Curing it should be our first priority, and from just hearing the results of the passing of the US Budget today, that will never happen until we can get into Congress, only those who agree with those sentiments…. It’s about money. We know where it is kept, and we need more of it now….
The issue has never been to take away guns, The issue has always been to work to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people…
The NRA has worked hard to make that impossible. Using anonymity, fake screens, and everything possible to keep the criminal element intact.
If criminals weren’t subsidizing the NRA, they should start in order to keep it in business.
During the upcoming legislative session, gun laws designed to allow normal people to have all the guns they want, and abnormal people not to get them, should become a priority.
It is especially sad, when a father on one coast tries to get help for his mentally unstable son on another coast, and can’t in time to save an innocent person’s life…
We can do better; creating a law that requires a gun owner to at least have the mental capacity to drive a vehicle… would be a start. If one is deemed to unstable to drive on our public highways, we could probably be safe and rule out the likelihood of them ever owning a gun….
It is no big deal. Or better framed, it is far less a big deal than seeing your son or daughter shot by someone who should have never had a gun in the first place….
80 percent of the cost of treating victims of gun violence in 2010 was borne in part by taxpayers, according to an analysis of hospital and insurance data.
Hospitals in the U.S. spent $630 million in 2010 treating the victims of gun violence, two dollars for every man woman and child in America. The Medicaid costs of gun violence alone that year amounted to approximately $327 million. Private insurers, and hospitals eating the cost of the uninsured, made up the remaining $403 million.
The average cost of a hospital visit for a gun violence victim is $14,000 more than that of the average hospital stay.
But is the hospital cost the only cost to society? It appears no. Gun violence cost the US $174 billion in 2010. The societal cost per firearm assault injury (includes workloss, medical/mental health care, emergency transportation, police/criminal justice activities, insurance claims processing, employer costs and decreased quality of life) … was $5.1 million for each fatality and $433,000 for each hospital-admitted patient. You as a consumer pay this cost in everything you buy; it is added in. Put in perspective that amounts to $522 dollars for every single man, every single woman, and every single child in America.
How can we save ourselves this money? How can we stop the majority of gun violence? Very simple. Register every gun to an single owner so if a gun is used to kill, someone gets held responsible. Very simple. Registering hurts no one; your car, your house, even your vaccinations are registered for example.
Isn’t it horrible we are having a big battle over something as tiny as registering a fire arm which over a decade has cost every man, woman, and child $5,220 dollars? Over “registering?” We’ve lost our senses.
Americans are paying dearly for the “privilege” to keep a gun that is non-traceable. By registering all firearms and thereby being able to keep guns out of those who would use them in criminal actions, great savings can be saved for all the millions of the American people.
We did, we almost won this with the first wave of the attack; we did far better than we expected; we suffered no causalities. Time to launch again for 2014. The truth, and money, both lie flatly on the side of registering all firearms…
Goal should be: if you are not an upstanding citizen? No Gun. Period.
Caution: before continuing understand it is dangerous to take one isolated incident and use it to prove a point. But, oh, this does it so well.
Remember back when people who loved guns more than children were saying (and still do in the News Journal) that gun laws were attacking people who followed the law, and not criminals?
Well, in Milwaukee, a random road rage incident took place between two conceal and carry gun owners. and they drove all over Milwaukee, on and off freeways and through residential and commercial areas, shooting at each other like John Wayne being attacked by a pack of Apaches (indians, not helicopters)…
Both guilty men were sane, law abiding citizens. Both felt with the Zimmerman defense of a corrupt law, they were quite well within the law to kill because of “threats”, and so a ridiculous gun battle reminiscent of the movie Stagecoach took place all over Milwaukee using cars instead of horses….I mean we don’t even show that in movies anymore; that meme died out with the A-Team!
Proving what reasonable people have said all along and the NRA scared certain chicken hearted lawmakers (bock, bock, bock, you know who you are, Bonini & Lavelle) into disregarding… All gun owners have a crazy streak.
You have to regulate guns. Period. You just have too because nobody is safe if you don’t! Period.
When you have two reasonably sane human being who would have nothing ever to do with each other, suddenly go berserk for only one, single, solitary reason: they are carrying a gun, then the problem is the gun.
You have to regulate the gun, not the person. Period.
Anyways, since I must confess this sounds like so much fun, (I think paintball car chases would be so awesome) that we should expect quite a few more to copycat in the very near future.
But remember this: it was because they both felt entitled that the law would support them, they took off and performed this act which fortunately did not kill anyone… But it very well could have. The law allowing guns to be concealed and carried, was the principal cause. not the people themselves.
Regulate guns. period. And don’t listen to the NRA. They’re full of crap.
The officers shot in the New Castle County Courthouse shooting speak out, for the first time since the tragic event, in support of the federal Bulletproof Vest Partnership. Their vests were purchased at half the cost to Capitol Police through the federal Bulletproof Vest Partnership, which expired last summer. Senator Coons is fighting to bring the grant program back.Coons doesn’t believe law enforcement should have to stand on street corners with a tip cup to get funding.
“I think the federal government owes this to local and state law enforcement,”
So we will make them beg for dollars in a tin cup, but we are too cowardly to ban high capacity clips and assault weapons?
Do you know who the biggest pushers of these two bans are? Not parents but our first responders…. They were during the 1990′s and are now the ones asking our legislators to do the right thing and step up to ban high capacity clips, and ban automatic weapons….
(Delaware Law will only regulate new purchases and will not impose any hardship whatsoever on current owners )….
But isn’t it the height of hypocrisy that we can’t muscle the stamina to help out a first responder with passing two trite pieces of legislation, but we can certainly fan the flames to get press coverage of them begging for money so they can please, please have 14 times a better chance of living through a firefight? Think about it.
Just ban the sale of high capacity clips and assault rifles… Help a first responder out……
Lost my Gun, What should I do?
Lost my Gun, What should I do?
Lost my Gun, What should I do?
Better call nine, one, one…..
A. You tell me! Should it be illegal to walk into Dover Mall with a gun and pop in a 30 round clip?
Yes, it should. Vote for HB 58…
B. You tell me! Should it be perfectly legal to have a gun with a 30 round clip on a shooting range where it won’t hurt anyone?
Yes, it should. Vote for HB 58…
C. You tell me! Should it be perfectly legal to have a gun with a 30 round clip in ones home, as protection against forced entry?
Yes, it should. Vote for HB 58…
The only reason a misguide legislator could ever find to vote AGAINST .. HB 58, would be if he wished… TO SEE PEOPLE DIE! This law protects gun owners and changes nothing for anyone owning a clip over 10 rounds.. However this new law will make high capacity clips illegal in public places other than a shooting range… That is a very good idea. Genius in fact.
I was just challenged by the owner of a gun blog to illustrate how well gun control works.
US = no gun control == 14078 gun homicides==0.00446% of the population==. 4.69 per 100000
Somalia = no gun control== 138 gun homicides==0.0000138% of the population==1.38 per 100,000
Yeman = no gun control== 990 homicides (by any means)==0.0000413% = 4.304 per 100,000 (this total includes deaths by swords, stonings, long curved knives and guns).
Japan = good gun control == 11 gun homicides== 0.00000866% of population == 0 per 100,000
S. Korea = good gun control ==14 gun homicides == 0.0000290% of population == 0 per 100,000
Spain = good gun control == 67 gun homicides == 0.0000565% of population == 0 per 100,000
Finally, Australia. a single country on both sides of the spectrum! One that had no gun control, then passed legislation which controlled guns. In similar terms out of 100,000, it went from a high ratio of 4.71 to 1.06…. Gun control where you make it illegal to own a military grade weapon works deliciously well…
Now, Mike W. Prove how homicides go down when you give everyone a gun … Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…
The stupid NRA has their head wedged so far up their butt, I bet it hurts bad when they try to sit down…