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Today, March 25th, the Supreme Court hears the Hobby Lobby case.
The question before the court is this:
If a law violates one’s religion, does one have to follow it? We have by fortuity and circumstance, brought ourselves so low to now ask of our court, to decide which of the two shall have predominance… Law or Religion.
If law wins, than religions must conform to the law; if religion wins, then to circumvent any law, one simply has to state it is against one’s religion.
There are good reasons for both sides, depending upon which predominates in your mind. If you think religion is above the government, then obviously you will think that as an individual, your government shall not make you do something your religion tells you is wrong…. Basically the law is compelling you to sin.
We’ve seen it before. Burkas: your religions dictates you wear them, and the law says you can’t for safety reasons… Withholding medical care for a child, your religion tells you to put faith into divine intervention, and when that turns out badly, the state sends you away for murder. Vaccinations. your religion tells you no, but the government says yes…..
In all those cases religion lost; here is why.
There were other people affected. Religion is a deep personal internal experience. and the law generally upholds that one has the right to adhere to doctrines if one wishes…. AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT HARM SOMEONE ELSE. The canon of law is very clear, that hurting other people, cannot be excused on the account of ones religions… The Burka ban is to protect from human bombs. The courts have said that if safety in a crowd is an issue for many other people, then the law can be changed to violate the harm-giver’s religion. The potential for harm controls the dynamics of the case.
Likewise the dead child not receiving medical care can be a very moving religious experience, but the child died. He obviously was harmed ant therefore the law trumps religion. The potential for harm controls the dynamics of the case.
Again the same is true over withholding vaccinations. Not being vaccinated creates a possible host-carrier for the disease sometime in the future… It is not just the subject at risk for failing to become vaccinated. Everyone else is susceptible to that carried organism. The potential for harm to many controls the dynamics of the case.
So we turn to birth control. One of which is abortion. Who could possibly be harmed over not insuring contraception? Is it really as cut and dried as Rush Limbaugh speaks, when he says it is all about him paying for Sandra Fluke to have sex? He’s paying and it isn’t even with him? Tant pis.
Prophylactics. Who gets harmed? That one is easy. Every person who picks up HIV for one. For two, gonorrhea and syphilis. For three, someone getting the herpes virus. Harm is endemic. And like vaccinations, harm can be unsuspectingly spread to others. Lack of free contraception could cause multiple spouses irreparable harm through no fault or wrongdoing of their own. Everyone has the right to intercourse, just as everyone has a right to their own Roth-IRA. But not everyone has an Roth-IRA now, do they? Many can’t afford it and so do without. Same with contraception. Therefore not funding free prophylactics causes irreparable harm to innocent people….
Chemicals, birth control pills and RU-486. Who gets harmed if these are unavailable? That one is easy. The future baby (def: humanness does not or will ever start until birth), the mother, the father, the grandparents, the great grandparents, the physician, society in general, future taxpayers… Quite a few harmed souls actually…. Withholding these birth control items is exactly on par with withholding antibiotics to a child dying from blood poisoning. Just as the child is suffering needlessly through no fault on its own, so is the pregnant woman suffering as is her child, though no fault of their own. Normally she would have gotten free contraception. But no, religion stepped in and now that is impossible.
Third is performed abortion. This is an emotional topic, that some equate with murder. The courts have flatly said it is not. Life begins at birth, always has, always will. Therefore performed abortions are perfectly legal, even though some people may not agree. And here the law is clear. They have the right to decide for themselves and not agree if they so choose, but they do not have any right to decide for others. No one does. That is embedded in the foundation of our founding documents…. That is the definition of freedom. One cannot say they for freedom and yet rail against choice. That is a scientific impossibility. Obviously what those well meaning people are trying to express is that they are all for freedom when it applies to them, but certainly not when it applies to others who have a different value system from them. Enforcing the right to free abortions, is like allowing burkas to be worn without restriction, fully knowing that suicide bombers are rampant in the crowds around you… Banning abortions for certain women, is the equivalent to telling the Israeli population, ” oh, sorry; no protection for you; you have to die if someone sets off a bomb, because you see, burkas are so sacred, we aren’t going to violate one of our tiny minority’s religious beliefs. If someone smuggles a bomb in under one, sigh, oh well.
If you are sharp about your wits, you picked up the clue I left you in the paragraph above. Right up there where I said..”they do not have any right to decide for others”….. Probably Conservatives will pick it up faster than contraception supporters. “Wait a minute” they will say, “see, that is exactly what you are doing to us by making us pay for contraception when we don’t want to cough up the money for it. You are deciding for us, what we have to do…”
And that is exactly right…. We are.
If you remember up at the top of this piece of writing where I stated this case was to decide the supremacy of law versus religion? Well that is the caveat. In religious circles we are deciding what one needs to do. We are saying that contraception will be available to everyone through their insurance free of charge…. In the legal realm that is the law. You can choose to follow it or not. If not, then beware of consequences. Why just today, I saw a Toyota that by my guess, chose not to follow the posted speed limit. He didn’t look too happy either…. We make decisions every day on whether to follow a law or not, and we choose to what degree we wish to comply… Some of us, unluckily, will pay a price…. But though angry, we really have no right to bring in religion…. Because it is a non-religious law….
In the religious world, we are however making a person (although admittedly in an extremely indirect and via a convoluted pathway, be associated with something he doesn’t wish… However, that is not a problem of our governmental courts. Religious issues are not in the bailiwick of the Supreme Court. It decides issues of law and order, and is forbidden on deciding on religion. Instead, religious issues need to be decided by a denominational or religious court if their denomination should happen to have them… If not, they should then be decided by that religion’s Inquisition or equivalent…. Then through whatever authority those courts have, they need to exercise their options of enforcing those religious edicts in ways that do not run up against the laws of the land…
A second issue is whether information or facts on file inside a Delaware Courthouse is also a real person. Are Corporations people too, as Romney once said? That is preposterous to even consider, but alas, so it will be one of the hinges on which this outcome depends. The sole point of this case is that a corporation (Hobby Lobby) is so sad, it’s heartbroken that it will have to pay for contraception for its employees, it cries every night and has insomnia. It can’t urinate correctly and has irregular bowel movements. As a result, this corporation is now suffering from malnutrition, and dehydration. Quite possibly, through all the duress and stress, this corporation has also suffered brain damage, causing its malignant depression. It might even have cancer….
If a corporation is not a person, then this case is simply dismissed. Corporations are subservient to human beings and therefore must confirm to the laws of the land in which they may find themselves. But if a corporation IS a person, then we have a battle over which person suffers the most, if free birth control is abandoned…. or…. no longer free…
If a corporation IS deemed to be a person… the next question for discussion, is when does that person-hood begin…. Did it start when it is born,upon the signing of its documents? Or, has it existed as a corporation ever since its idea was first conceived?
As you all know, there are several Supreme Court decisions due this term regarding the ability of corporations or personal businesses to express their religiosity in defiance of the law of the land. One is Hobby Lobby which thinks it should not be required to practice something that is against their religion. The second is today’s “stay” on whether Catholic Organizations have to dispense something their religion completely disavows; birth control.
On one hand we will hear the drums of how religion is being imposed upon by the government. On the other hand we will hear how those employed by these employers, have the right to choice just as do their bosses….
Let us look at the first plank: how religion is being imposed upon by the government. As is been oft repeated, the Constitution as originally written said rather little about the right to religion. However, it IS in the Bill of Rights, which because they were a necessary addition added to get the Constitution garnering enough votes, one can loosely say, the original Constitution deals with religion…
And as is oft repeated with every controversy, the First Amendment states as follows: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. This means that Congress cannot say: “This year’s official religion will be Pentecostal. All other religions are hereby abolished”. This may sound far fetched to us, but was a real factor in the daily lives of the colonists before the nation was forged. Quakers were ostracized by Episcopalians. Catholics were beset with punitive laws except in Maryland. If you needed to go before the state or county courthouse, you had to be of that area’s official religion, before you could get heard… True, dat.
The second part, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; is where the argument will be directed. Hobby Lobby and the Little Sisters of the Poor, both have similar arguments which are as follows.
“WE don’t believe sex should be had for enjoyment. Our religion is anti-sex. If we have to dispense or are required to pay for people to commit sex without the consequence of pregnancy or a viral AIDS infection, we are having our free exercise of religion being prohibited….”
More clearly put: our religion demands that we prohibit sex for enjoyment wherever it “pops” up. If you stop us from prohibiting enjoyable sex, you are interfering with our religion.
In the matter of text, they have a point. If their religion does indeed demand that they stop everyone from having enjoyable sex, then the government in stepping in to stop them from stopping some amazing sex, is depriving them of their religious rights. So we should conceive that they have a textual point….. Before the Obamacare, religion was not impinged. Now it is.
The next step is to see if that point is relevant with the norms of today’s society. As an extreme case, allowing a quirky religious sect to burn their babies alive because “it is called for by their religion” would be a case where the harm done to a citizen of the United States of America against their will, would outweigh in society’s eyes the harm being done to the religiosity of those practicing such a barbarity. Burning witches at a stake would suffice as an example as well.
There is obvious a gray area then where government must trample on religion and religion finds it must interfere with government.
We can use the extreme case above of burning witches. One could say that happened in Delaware in 2010. (lol. Our witch got burned bad.) Here we have a case where one religion (the witch burning one) interferes with the other religion (the witch one). When you have two opposite religions, the government has to look at other laws other than religion to determine policy. In this case, murder. Correct?
So the correct assessment is that since both religious issues cancel each other out, then the factor of murder by default becomes the deciding one. The witch-burning religion is in the wrong by existing laws on the books (murder) and therefore it must stop its practice. Was it’s bizarre form of religion impinged upon by government? Absolutely. And for good reason; it was murder.
So we now have precedence of government making necessary impositions upon any religious practices that harm society. Yet there is still no imposition upon ones beliefs. You can still “believe” that burning witches is your goal in life, but you just can’t carry it out. It hurts other people.
So the defense of the law by the government must not focus on the rights of these religious petitioners. but should solely focus on that harm which if allowed to go forward, that religion will impinge upon all those millions of people who are not in either sect, and who will suffer at the hands of any court decision favoring either sect’s quixotic religious preferences.
They have First Amendment rights too…. such as in having our Government abridging the freedom of speech…
The courts have long upheld that “expression” was the founding father’s meaning of “speech”. Porn doesn’t move it’s lips but is a form of expression protected by the Supreme Court. Just like that Pat Robertson of the 700 Club doesn’t move his lips, but is also considered a form of expression protected by the Supreme Court. Art is expression. Music is expression. Love is expression…
Likewise there are reasonable limits to the right to expression, again, determined by society’s norms. Going nude in a public school is not good. There are reasons that is against the law. Playing music too loud on Newark’s Main Street is not good. There are reasons that is against the law. Graffiti in the Bank of America building, not good. There are reasons that would be against the law.
So the argument made before the court will be two fold; what is harmful or non harmful to each side, and what society’s norms will dictate, whether one or another is extreme when compared to the norm of society….
Therefore this becomes a moral question, not one of logic. After all, both sides think logic is on their side. And I think all will boil down to something said by the last Pope, Pope Benedict….
He stated something along the lines, “that people have to eat; and to eat, they have to work.” If work is abundant, perhaps one can leave one employer and go to another which they prefer. But if work is scarce, they are bound to hang on to that job no matter what external factors line up to batter them. If there is one job in town, and the boss halves the wages, one has to accept it. If there is one job in town, and the boss demands sexual favors for one to keep it, one has to acquiesce because there is no other alternative.
So for every religious nun or Hobby Lobby business owner who wishes to buck the current law, there are those countless employees working for them who will get hurt if their employer gets any exception to the current law simply because their religion states “it” is against all enjoyable sex.
Those employees working for these bosses, can’t have enjoyable sex because of the religiosity of their employers…. ” I’m sorry Hon, but because I work for Hobby Lobby, we can’t do it for another 15 days… Just hold it inside, will you?”
Their expression, in the privacy of their home, is impinged… While yet…the religious owners expression in the privacy of THEIR homes, is not affected by one bit…
Since one side is negatively affected in private by the consequences of not having contraception reimbursed, and the other side is not, it seems imperative that a thoughtful, logical, non-judgmental court, would decide to protect those who are hurt, at the expense of those who are doing the hurting….
Remember: it is still the insurance companies who are paying for all these sexual items; not the employers themselves; there is no harm to the employers if this policy goes forward. They are not in anyway contributing any harm to themselves. Just like if they burned witches….
Those they are affecting, do get harmed…. Not being allowed to enjoy sex because of your luck at being hired by one employer over another, surely trumps whether that employer feels slightly “miffed” that he is required to insure his employees and that insurance will allow them to enjoy the wonders of sex without getting pregnant or getting viral AIDS.
AIDS kills, like being burned at the stake. Being allowed to stand around the fire going “tsk, tsk” should not become our nation’s definition of what “religion” is all about……
What a crazy day. Headlines are just writing themselves…. Crossfire in Wilmington wounds two ladies just sitting on their porch…..
Is Williams qualified as mayor to take the reins and go forward? He certainly ran as such. But since, we have gotten only talk…
“I’ll get it. I’ll get it… It just takes time ( ghost of Mayor Baker?)… You see, it’s the neighborhood, the bad family life..(ghost of Mayor Baker?). We’re going to crack down. We’re going to stop this senseless killing.”
Then another one goes down….
“I’ll get it. I’ll get it… It just takes time ( ghost of Mayor Baker?)… You see, it’s the neighborhood, the bad family life..(ghost of Mayor Baker?). We’re going to crack down. We’re going to stop this senseless killing.
Then another one goes down….
“I’ll get it. I’ll get it… It just takes time ( ghost of Mayor Baker?)… You see, it’s the neighborhood, the bad family life..(ghost of Mayor Baker?). We’re going to crack down. We’re going to stop this senseless killing.
Then another one goes down….
“I’ll get it. I’ll get it… It just takes time ( ghost of Mayor Baker?)… You see, it’s the neighborhood, the bad family life..(ghost of Mayor Baker?). We’re going to crack down. We’re going to stop this senseless killing…
The answer of what needs to happen is pretty obvious. As cautioned elsewhere, Mayor Williams needs to stop saying “stop and frisk.” Just the sound of that causes trouble…
Instead, round up everyone you see loitering or jaywalking and take them in for processing… The ordnances are already on the books and everyone is frisked before going into a police car… Nothing illegal at all.
Start saying “we’ll clear the streets of loiterers and jaywalkers.”… then do it. The difference will be evident in just one day.
There is no way there was an altercation. There is no way Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman.
Dr. Shiping Bao, the Volusia County medical examiner who was in charge of handling slain-teenager Trayvon Martin’s body in February 2012, has come out and claimed that, despite Zimmerman’s statements regarding their altercation, there was no feasible way for Martin to have been on top of Zimmerman when the gun was fired because the bullet entered Martin’s back. ….
One must be initially skeptical because this new revelation, is being made by one subsequently fired from his position who is now threatening to sue the state of Florida for $100 million dollars.
But, if anyone knows white supremacists, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence going in this direction.
One, the assistant medical examiner is not white. He is Asian. A minority himself. It reminds one of those films where a black child witnesses a lynching and then is told, “boy, you tell no one about this, you hear?” and out of fear, willingly obliges….
The claim this medical examiner is making is that when he questioned why the “official version” was not related to the placement of the gunshot wound, he was told to ” zip his lips. ‘Shut up. Don’t say those things.”
Since this message was released by Mr. Bao’s attorney, and specifically to a sympathetic ear with a well read reading base, one may have reasonable doubts as to their validity.
Two, recent activities by Zimmerman himself, now that his handlers have all packed their bags and departed, has given far more credibility to him having a persona who would have lovingly shot Trayvon simply to paraphrase Johnny Cash, “watch him die.” His ex-spouse has been quoted (and retracted) as having Zimmerman state as he waved his gun in front of her and her dad, that “he’d take care of both of them just like he did Trayvon”... Unfortunately the proof is in a busted up phone in police protection and may never be recovered. The original police chief who knew Zimmerman, has been quoted saying “Zimmerman was a nut case”.
Three. What was on trial for Floridians and their sponsors ALEC, was the unconstitutional gun law. The trial needed Zimmerman to be innocent, in order to keep constitutional challenges of that law at bay. They are at bay, now, as you read this.
Bao claims that the prosecution never actually asked him the questions that were crucial to the success in the case, and that he changed his opinion after repeatedly being warned… from the time he initially examined Martin and the time he was on the stand. Bao and his attorney say they believe he was fired for questioning the way the case was handled, and possibly for not going long with the desired narrative.
Bao was “supposed” to follow the prosecution’s line that Trayvon was “doped up like a Jamacian” on marijuana, but instead told the truth that the minimal amount in Trayvon’s body, would in no way impair his judgment.
Before one dismisses this accusation out of hand, one must wonder. Why has it not been disproven already? A exhumation would easily prove Bao to be a liar, or instead a whistle blower. Surely there are the police photos from the coroner’s office, or crime scene, showing a shot into the front cavity of Mr. Martin, or his back, completely unscathed..
This accusation, if it was not true, would have already been completely shot down days ago. But it hasn’t… Why not? Are there no pictures of Trayvon Martin dispelling this notion?
If not, then why of all cases where routine pictures are always taken, is this case, which since it’s beginning has been under suspicion of miscarrying of justice, had its pictures been lost, … or stolen?
And that, is where we are.
All evidence now, after the trial, certainly point to Zimmerman executing Trayvon Martin while he was on his knees, back towards him, most likely begging for his life, and a) because blacks in hoodies cannot be right in that Southern Community, and b) because legitimacy of the Stand Your Ground Law was under attack, … bigger interests than either of these two people, had to insure that all stereotypes played out as they are supposed to in storybook little Florida towns….
For it forces a local district to pay up a mandate without any offsetting finances from the state or Federal.
The idea came from a DC attorney hired by Nashville Metropolitan School System, to determine what legal option local school boards had, when they were about to be inundated by force to voucher kids into charter schools. That program fortunately died in closing hours of their legislature, but not before the nation’s top educational law attorney had been hired.
In fact he proposed, there are three ways to stop charter schools legally.
The first. it creates an “arbitrary classification” by applying itself to only a few counties. In Tennessee the new charter law opening more schools, only applies to counties with large minority populations, and therefore, those counties will be burdened with increased costs as each new charter comes in. This creates a charge which all other districts will not have to contend. The government can’t penalize one county over another, and that is exactly what this bill does. I don’t see this argument applying to Delaware due to our consistency and small size. But, Pennsylvania sure could have used this argument before it closed Philly’s schools.
The second is racial. It could be easily pointed out that public schools are being closed down in African communities, and the charter law was proposed simply so charter’s could then jump into the gap. Therefore by penalizing one race over another, one is stepping on grounds of unconstitutionality. This argument satisfactorily could be used here in Wilmington to prevent charters coming in. Our bench has judges very sympathetic to rectifying imbalances in actions taken against races. Charter Schools do hurt minorities, especially African Americans.
And the third, is the Tennessee’s constitutional requirement, that the state cannot mandate upon the counties, any action which will require more taxes to be levied upon those living there. The state must provide enough money to cover the increased portion of the cost.
Charter Schools steal students and their state money away from public schools. When a charter school opens in a district, and a student opts to leave the public school and go charter, the money follows him. But as has been discussed repeatedly most of public schools costs are fixed. It costs the same to run a school bus 3 hours picking up kids whether the bus is full or has one quarter its capacity. Therefore the charters schools by taking money away from local public school districts, and by not reimbursing the school districts for that loss, are making local school districts have to put less money towards teaching children. or assess themselves at a higher rate to make up the short fall.
This should have been brought up as the charter law was enacted. For example, It really is unfair to Christina District who has more charters switches than any other districts.
In Tennessee, it is the teacher’s union which is the strong force counterbalancing the government’s imposition of bad data called “school reform.” They know it is a poisoned apple disguised as “remove the #^%$#^$ union” reform. One has to scratch their heads and wonder where on earth the DSEA is here in Delaware and why they are silent, not calling out for help, as the noose is getting put over their heads.
DSEA? DSEA? Anyone seen the …… Oh! There you are……
What an odd title but that is exactly what is going on in Egypt right now. A similar juxtaposition also occurred inside the minds of some Americans back on July 4th 1863 (exactly 150 years ago) as they begin to bury the dead from both sides in Gettysburg. Since human beings are 99.5% the same, what Egypt is now bearing must create some intro-inspection upon how things are going here in the US as well.
I was shown an email passed among Tea Partiers that whooped: “Egypt got rid of their dictator; Why can’t we get rid of ours?” Ironically the popular vote percents are strikingly similar… Morsi won with 51.7%; Obama with 51.1%… Yet Egypt is in the middle of a coup; and Obama is being hailed as the first since Dwight to have solidly won over 51% for both terms…
Just looking at a chart over our nation’s history one sees just how tight our popular vote margin is. (one also sees the margin of victory is a bad indicator of just how good a president will be)…
It’s a good thing we have an electoral college to decide matters for us, and create a more determinable method of preventing what Egyptians and many of out tea partiers think should happen now….
I know many decry Bush’s win (-0.51$) over Gore and use that to promote an amendment to abolish the Electoral College. However America survived far better than Egypt (+1.7%) is doing now, with even worse violations against the the popular vote total… Through the House of Representatives, these people became President: Benjamin Harrison (-0.83%), Rutherford B. Hayes (-3.00), and John Quincy Adams (-10.44%) all with more of a percentage loss than had George W. Bush over Gore. In two of the three, the loser returned to whomp the stealer out of his second term. One of these “losers” even had a 51% popular vote majority!
But the electoral college provided decisiveness. Just like in football or basketball, the final score may not portray the better team, but it provides a finality from which we can all move on.
The demise of Morsi is a great chance to bring up this issue, simply to force us to understand why our founding fathers who were unburdened at that point by political parties, could by using what today are called “thought models”, come up with this peculiar institution that has well served it’s test over time. Couple that to the fact that even today, we have something almost akin to a political party vying for the forced overthrow our our elected top official, one can imagine the rancor and violence that might have tainted our nation’s development if we did not have a clear uncontestable “score” that determined our winners from losers.
One must be cautious when comparing today’s Egypt with today’s American democracy. Egypt is in its founding stages. As Morsi proclaimed, removing him removes all legitimacy of any future democratically elected government. As did Julius Caesar to all future democracy in Rome.
It makes us realize how lucky we are today that all of America was unified behind George Washington as it’s first head of state. That unanimity of opinion, allowed the slow formation of traditions we now have today to take root. For one, Washington did not impose himself (as did Morsi) by aligning with either the Democrats or Federalists on policy at the expense of the other.
Morsi made that mistake with the Muslim Brotherhood. Instead, unlike the current head of Egypt, George Washington held court over a myriad of opinions, and picked and chose in the fashion of King Solomon, almost the same as he did at the Constitutional Convention, of which was the most judicious approach on the basis of each proposal’s merits. It is worth noting, that towards the end of his second term as the political parties were being formed for the upcoming 1798 race, he himself became quite disgusted with the smears, dirt, graft, and corruption required to enable any country to run effectively upon its own power…
Perhaps because Egypt did not endure a long war of Independence, it does not respect the cost of freedom. Perhaps because democracy came to Egypt in its first time like a pack of chewing gum in a cashiers line, they easily think they can replace it again with a better flavor?
But this foreboding irony of Egypt remains. Instead of comparing it with American Democracy, suppose we go Godwin and compare it to the German election of 1932. What if the Germans had risen up a year later against Hitler and thrown him out? That would be good thing right? Or had Mao been pushed out and the Chinese business reforms begun 40 years earlier? Or had North Korea said “unh unh” to its dictator in the first year? Or had Centrists in Iran risen and prevailed over the Ayatollah?
The Turkish Army as well as the Pakistani Army has on occasion stepped in and then later bowed out whenever control has become precarious. Perhaps this is the only model that works well for overly excitable Arab populations? it is a longterm democracy with military safeguards built into its Constitution.
But one thing is very clear from this current outcome is this: religion can play NO part in government, even if given a political mandate. Living vicariously through Egypt it is clear there must be an impenetrable wall between that which belongs to Caesar, and that which belongs to God. All political entities who have dared mix religion into their political framework, have populations who are deeply suffering now (relative to those in strictly secular governments), even when that religious entity is the Chairman of the ruling political party himself, as is the case in North Korea, the old Soviet Union, or as was of Japan and Germany during the second world war…
It’s a lesson the US should take to heart. They next time anyone decries we need more religious people in our democracy, cut them off with this: “Remember Iran; Remember Egypt.”
As Americans we are not immune to Civil War. From it we learned it is a horrible alternative to walk away from one’s existing structure simply because one does not get one’s own way… We also learned that one can’t impose one’s will on vast majorities of ourselves who think differently.
Third. We learned that freedom is great, but the need to eat is greater. Government first has to function to meet the basic needs of its citizens; only then, once its citizens are economically stable to be not worried whether they will be alive the day after tomorrow, can their thoughts begin to turn to topics such as does democracy even matter?
As US policy, our actions need to first get Egypt to feed themselves; Spare no expense; make it our generation’s Marshall Plan. Then once well fed and able to provide for themselves, can we begin to proselytize our points of view. Whether they choose democracy or totalitarianism, will depend solely on who they see helping them now in their time of need… One can talk of democracy’s long-term future implications, but that rings on deaf ears when all one really wonders, is if one will be alive the day after tomorrow.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
What the NRA is proposing: that every man become his own enforcer of his own view of “constitutionality” by having his own masses of whatever firepower he so chooses, … is the exact opposite of being well regulated. As we see with every new report of shootings, it promotes anarchy.
If we assume that a civilian population is required to keep arms to protect itself from tyranny, then by the words of the Constitution itself,… we have to regulate those very arms…
We can regulate them by banning assault rifles. We can regulate them by banning high capacity clips. We can regulate them by registering every firearm to a single owner, and holding that single owner accountable for whatever accident befalls that gun. We can regulate them by requiring insurance, and if there are those who refuse to abide by the constitutional regulations, we can incarcerate them and be done with them.
The Constitution allows for firearms, only IF THEY ARE WELL REGULATED….
So, in order to validate the Constitution, let’s regulate all firearms….. Failure to do so, is a violation of the Founding Father’s own principles, and is unconstitutional….
It says so right there in the Second Amendment. Care to read it?
Courtesy of Fox Productions.
On a Conservative blog which I won’t name to keep up the appearance of respectability, some amazing comments were posted. When you approach them in remembering that we are dealing with a school shooting, a theater shooting, and a congressperson shooting, (as well as a mall, a church, another school.) none of the comments deal with that reality.
Instead the conversation becomes one on a made up topic, in this case, … that they were going to lose their guns….
The framing of their thought process begins with this: since we are at war with our own government (going on long before the shootings) keeping all weapons in individual’s hands is our first priority, it is the one worth fighting for. Children?” What children? Oh, those? Children die of natural causes all the time. (plus they don’t vote, they do “suck up” their parents resources, and they want things “given” to them, so they don’t matter..)
Here is how their brains work…. Pretend it is you starting the conversation and you need to talk to your spouse, bf, etc, about finances….
“Hey, … we need to talk… This check book is not having its totals kept up….”
“Oh, my Goodness….. Just like that? It’s over just like that?”
“No, No, No… I want to talk to you about our finances….”
“They are younger than I am, isn’t it.. I gave you everything and you are tossing me away. I got wrinkles for you. I sacrificed for you!” I hate you…” (the shrill”screaming begins…)
“No, Calm down. Please. Don’t … Relax… I just need to talk to you about our finances. Look, it’s about the checkbook…”
“OH MY GOSH!… are you closing our bank account? How will I live. You are taking a vacation with them, aren’t you… You stole all our money and you are leaving today, aren’t you!…”
“No, once again. I’m not mad at you. I love you. .. I always love you… I just want to make sure we are on the same page on this checkbook, that is all.”
“Oh, now you are blaming me, huh? It’s all my fault! I never did you wrong and this is how you treat me… I’m calling mom…”
“Mom! I just got thrown out of the house… Yes, he’s taking a vacation with some vixen, I guess he knows her at work. The kids? He didn’t say. I guess he’s keeping them tonight. Can I come over? I’m a mess, I hurt, I can’t stand up. I’m in shock. Hold on, Mom, here he comes….”
“GET AWAY! GET AWAY! STAY AWAY! DON’T GO THREATENING ME! Mom, quick call the police….”
LOL… That is what talking to a conservative about guns is like… They can’t reason. They attack you for doing the worst thing to them when you just wanted to discuss a minor adjustment. They are psycho….
Oh, so now I’m exaggerating? Ha, ha… Look at these excerpts… Now these came from party chairs, county chairs,… former state-wide Republican candidates, … this is a high touting thread… none of their comments deals on the topic of Sandy Hook, or any other mass murder across our nation, caused by assault weapons and high capacity clips….
Here is what they say…..
Obama is going to take guns away.
The military is going to take guns away.
Democrats want to grow government bigger and bigger.
Obama is a statist pure and simple.
Does government have the power to reverse the existence of evil in the world.
World’s first murder occured thousands of years before the first gun was invented.
You want to take/eliminate/control over 300 million weapons but you oppose any effort to control illegal immigrants numbering about 12 million who are in plain sight.
Unlawfully armed criminals will have their way with you and your family at will. When every second counts, the police are only minutes away.
Government will do whatever it can to suppress freedom and liberty
You really think government will willingly submit to the electorate IF that electorate possesses no means to physically defend and enforce their own rights.
You have no real knowledge of how many military personnel includig officers would side with the people if the people were forced to take up arms against a tyrannical government.
Capabilities possessed by our government (much of them) would quickly line up alongside the armed citizens and against elected leaders
The Soviet Union collapsed for one and only one reason: The military (much of it) would not carry out orders to fire on their own countrymen.
If the people put up some serious resistance, they would quickly be joined by at least half, probably a majority, of the military of the United States.
All the officers fighting for the South and the North were allpreviously the military of one unified United States of America.”
If 500,000 armed men and women take to the streets with weapons to fight tyranny, the military for at least half of it will support the people
The progressive liberal government will use any excuse (Sandy Hook) to further their goal of disarming the American Public. The only thing standing in their way is the Second Amendment
I used a quick reasonable number of people who are armed. Even the ones that didn’t come out on the streets are in their homes armed.
The people are not going to fire on the military for the same reason that the military is not going to fire on the people.
The Soviet tyrants fell when the people marched on the legislature
Military would be ordered to go and disarm the people in clear violation of the Second Amendment…. and the military would simply refuse.
Liberals tried to teach the military to DISOBEY unlawful orders ever since the FAKED atrocities in Vietnam trumpeted by liar like John Kerry.
Maybe we should have IQ tests at the polls, too.
When guns are taken from law-abiding citizens, only criminals and law-enforcement will be armed.
The military would disobey an order to fire on an armed population marching on a tyrannical Congress or White House.This would work only BECAUSE the people are armed.
ONLY because the people are heavily armed would the US military feel confident disobeying orders and siding with a legitimate and proper Second American Revolution.
The Nazis murdered 11 million people — not battlefield deaths, outright murder — BECAUSE they disarmed the people.
The only role that guns played in those 6 million deaths were that the Nazis had ‘em and the Jews didn’t..If those 6 mllion Jews had been armed,…
If evil and murder have been rampant for thousands of years BEFORE the invention of the gun, why are you focusing on the gun?
The Military would feel more strongly about joining an armed insurrection that was shooting them as opposed to unarmed protesters they were being ordered to murder
It isn’t the military the people would be shooting.
Let’s remember, folks: IT IS ILLEGAL FOR THE MILITARY TO OPERATE WITHIN THE BORDERS OF THE UNITED STATES
US military were involved in any way inside the borders of the USA, that itself would be unlawful and a reason for the military to disobey orders.
The armed insurection you postulate would be marching on the Congress — not attacking army bases.
nobody ever suggests that the First Amendment has to be justified by questions about “WILL IT WORK?”
A skilled bowman can kill people just as fast or faster with a cross bow
What about Fertilizer and other chemicals killed 168 people and injured 680 others. Not a single gun involved.a person who walks a bundle of 12 sticks of dynamite into a school auditorium or shopping mall?
4 million Jews went to the gas chambers because they did NOT have guns.
How many guns were involved in the 9/11 terrorist attacks in which 3000 people died?
The 2nd amendment is not perfect but stands as a major deterent to our Government becoming a dictatorship of any kind.
You can pass all the laws you want to start the process of disarming the civilian population, instead of enforcing the laws that are on the books and the result will be the same.
If and when there comes a time when our Government attempts to take away million of legally owned firearms beware of what they will try and take away from you next i.e. your freedom.
Wandering around a school looking for victims, like at Virginia Tech (which involved an ordinary pistol), a skilled crossbow fighter (1) could kill more people because no one would hear gun shots and react or run, and (2) could kill as many people. Are people less dead if it takes 10 minutes instead of 5 minutes?
It does not matter if American civilians are armed or not, the military won’t fire on them.
So if the US military were ordered to fire on US civilians, they would probably turn around and ARREST the person giving them the order.
Liberals imagine soldiers to be these stupid, mentally-retarded robots who don’t listen to Rush Limbaugh or Fox News.
If there were a Second American Revolution as Thomas Jefferson strongly recommended, it would follow a series of clearly illegal acts — such as confiscating guns in violation of the Second Amendment, violating the debt limit illegally, etc.
If there were an impending confrontation, a delegation would go under a white flag to appeal to the police or military to obey their Constitutional oath and sit this one out or join them.
Peaceful demonstrations never have and never will accomplish anything by themselves — although I have organized and participated in many of them.
I have never felt more threatened and in personal danger than when demonstrating near liberals who go insane with uncontrollable anger when conservatives are involved in a peaceful demonstration that disagrees with the liberals.
How did the peaceful demonstrations work out for the Chinese in Tiannemen Square? A demonstration only works IN COMBINATION WITH THE IMPLIED THREAT BACKING IT UP.
In the USA, the demonstration has an impact ONLY because it can motivate the voters TO THROW THE BUMS OUT on election day.
First, there is NOTHING the government can do, to eliminate mass killings across America.
Trying to ask the question “What should we do?” presupposes that there IS ANYTHING that the government can do. That threshold question has not been addressed… because it cannot be addressed.
Jack the Ripper killed a lot of people in London without a gun.
What about a nut job walking a bundle of dynamite into a school auditorium assembly? What about a bomb made from fertilizer like in Oklahoma City at the Murrah building?
Second, are there things we as a society could do to rid the society of evil? YES, but not through the government. We need to repent and return to God.
Ban violent video games as OBSCENE. Obscenity — which is DIFFERENT from pornography under the law — can be banned
Stop Hollywood from making extremely violent movies. Movies like “Saw” (continuation of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre) are legally OBSCENE. They should be banned outright.
Punishment for murder should be swift and certain.
Stop excusing criminals who break the law. Punish law-breakers, don’t coddle them.
Get rid of soft on crime judges.
Ban abortion, which encourages murder of children. If it is okay for parents to kill their own infant — now in the tens of millions — what is wrong with a gun man shooting children in a public school?
What is delusional is your belief that attacking army bases is how an uprising to stop a tyrannical government would occur.
The only reason an armed population would go near the military is to RECRUIT THEM..pointing out chapter and verse as to how the government was violating the Constitution and no longer legitimate.
If your 19 year old were in a unit ordered to fire on American civilians, EVEN IF fired upon, he would probably fire into the air and intentionally miss. Not being as stupid as you think soldiers are, he would realize that the conflict was with his commanders, not him, and if he was not confident enough to arrest his commander (not knowing how others in his unit would feel about that), he would most likely discharge his weapon intentionally missing.
So again your argument depends upon assuming only the stupidest possible behavior, rather than a rational sequence of events.
They are the cream of America. They go into the military out of honor and duty for the best interest of the country. If they saw that the government was acting unconstitutoinally, they would be eagerly waiting for the right moment to join the populace without getting shot for desertion.
You are addressing the wishes of a tyrannical government, not what would actually occur.
Would the military or National Guard obey after seeing that the tyrannical government is violating the Constitution and the law?
If the cause is hopeless, because the people have no guns, then the military and Guard would probably just fall in and obey orders, seeing no other choice.
Imagine a soldier contemplating disobeying an order asking the soldier next to him: “Are you with me?” If the other soldier is NOT with him, that soldier would turn him in as a traitor and the first one would face arrest or being shot.
If the American people continue to be armed with 270 million guns, many or most of the military and Guard would simply refuse to show up to defend a tyrannical government.
This is what happened in Moscow. The dissidents approached the soldiers, TALKED TO THEM, APPEALED TO THEM, gave them flowers and shared a drink with them, the soldiers stepped aside, and the dissidents passed through and took control of the national parliament.
You liberals cannot grasp the difference between the military, whom patriots would have no interest in fighting and tyrants usurping the government who are NOT the military.
If there were a need for a Second American Revolution, the guns would be used to arrest the POLITCIANS — not to go looking for good-hearted patriotic soldiers to SHOOT AT for no apparent reason.
The Second Amendment stands. It is the law. Nor do you need guns to overthrow a Government.
But quite often- as was the case in 1776- you do. It was the judgment of our Founders that the right of the people to keep and bear arms — ALL KINDS OF ARMS — shall not be infringed, including to protect liberty against tyranny.
It does not change the Second Amendment or the considered judgment of most other people that having guns in the hands of the people is the surest and greatest protection of our liberties.
You don’t have facts! You have only shown that you have a different opinion.
The end, (for now)…..
Under severe pressure led by US Corporate interest, the British Government has revoked embassy privileges of Ecuador, thereby allowing British police to enter and snatch Julian Assange, who is wanted by the Swedish government on a rape charge made by an accomplice in a consensual relationship gone wrong.
A brief history. Sweden under diplomatic pressure from the United States, prosecuted Assange on charges no other Swede would ever have to face. There is considerable evidence that the person bringing the charge is doing so, only to avoid prosecution and future incarceration themselves. So, if this is valid we have a trumped up charge being made by Sweden.
They have asked Britain to extradite him. How many rapists has the US asked to be extradited back here? None? Britain complied, and Assange took refuge in the Ecuador Embassy and requested asylum. Ecuador yesterday said they would grant it, then, their president said he hadn’t decided yet, after the new feeds were buzzing with the news.
Britain, then revoked Ecuador’s embassy privilege and amassed police in front of the building. Word got out and protesters quickly lined up protecting the building.
At stake is the sanctity of law. Can laws be arbitrarily enforced or not whenever authority feels like it? Obviously yes, if the power to do so is greater than the forces arrayed to stop it. But, the proper question should be…. Can laws be arbitrarily enforced and still maintain their sanctity as law? No, that’s the rub. Having a law that affects one party, but not another, is exactly the same as not having laws at all. If your authority violates a standard law that says diplomats and diplomatic residences have immunity and are treated as foreign soil. then you have no authority to stand behind the Magna Carta. For all will wonder, when will you change your mind about that one too?
There is no difference between the British revoking embassy privileges and taking someone hostage inside, than Iran students doing the same in 78. Britain’s actions just justified Islamic takeovers of every embassy on Muslim soil. We actually went through a Cold War, where we had known spies working out of embassy, and we never, never removed that embassy’s status and moved in taking prisoners. It would be an act of war….
If the Brits move forward, then war needs to begin anew upon corporate America. Yes, don’t get misled by the surrogates who exacerbate the problem, like Crabbe, Goyle and Malfoy. The Voldermort is American Corporate power.
Assange is not a criminal; any more than the New York Times is a criminal for publishing the Pentagon Papers….. He was a publisher, not the person leaking the story. Somehow the British Government by now arbitrarily making up rules like the Ministry of Magic under Cornelius Fudge, shows a Voldermortish dark streak running through it.
That dark streak is the Corporate headlock on American politics, who then use American muscle to pressure Britain into doing something no one really wants to do. Sweden doesn’t want him. Britain doesn’t want him. Ecuador doesn’t really want him. The only people who want him, and they want him hung,… are corporate America.
They are the problem. Not the Dumbledore…. who is made into looking like the bad guy…..